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27 August 2014 @ 10:01 am
No slash? WTF?  
I just realized the Circle of Friends remix has a no slash policy. I'm having difficulty not reading that as homophobic. I don't think I'm going to drop out but I also think I wouldn't have joined in if I'd read the rules more closely beforehand.
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
Believe only half of what you see: BtVS Willow MEHpickamix on August 27th, 2014 02:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that didn't thrill me. And even though I'd be more likely to finish something if I had someone else's story to guide me, I couldn't bring myself to sign up for that. I actually apply that policy in every direction. I don't sign up for strictly slash things either.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt with this. Perhaps the creator of this just prefers not to read slash because they want things to fuel their het fantasies and taste for gen fic. The same for people that like strictly slash stuff. I have my own preferences about stuff. Like I'm not usually a fan of all human AUs. Also for a really long time I was uncomfortable reading MM slash because I can't get into the characters' shoes and felt like I was some kind of weird peeping tom. It took some time, exposure, and talking to a couple gay male acquaintances to stop my irrational squickiness there. It wasn't homophobia. Even when I was little I would have men marry men when stuck playing dolls. So I try to not judge people that I don't know because of this type of thing.

I still won't participate though.

*hugs and love*
Dragon's Phoenix: archydragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 03:04 pm (UTC)
I'm trying to not judge, because I don't know why that rule was applied, but it's hard not to read it in a negative light.
Believe only half of what you see: BtVS Spike/Angel kisspickamix on August 28th, 2014 02:22 am (UTC)
I just read that post on aadler's page and it just made me cringe. If he'd worded it as ... I'm a hetero male and I'm just not interested in m/m sex, then I'd have been fine. That's understandable cause many het women aren't interested in f/f sex. But he's trying to disguise it as preferring only canon ships ... but he blows himself out of the water by including Faith/Willow as something he'll read and not including A/S or Xander ... if Faith was so obviously interested in women as well as men then so is Xander ... how many scenes show that he notices other males as sexually attractive? ... I can think of two off the top of my head. Plus there are looks and overly vehement denial of being at all gay, falling into the thou doth protest too much trap. So Xander is just as easily placed with say Larry as Willow is with Faith, right?

And even if you don't watch much AtS Joss made the A/S history as blatant as he could, so doesn't that make it as canon as Faith's bisexuality?

All this just makes me feel better about not signing up for this.

Him trying to be PC is one of the things that makes me like him less.

*hugs and love*
Dragon's Phoenix: spander coffindragonyphoenix on August 28th, 2014 03:30 am (UTC)
Yeah, the comments about Faith had seemed a bit off at first but then I did recall some really flirty bits with Buffy.

At first I couldn't think of anything for Xander but now that I've had some time to think about it:
Xander: That weird guy that warned her about all the vampires?
Willow: That's him, I'll bet you.
Xander: Well, he's buff! She never said anything about him being buff!

Believe only half of what you see: BtVS Spike Sweet Dreamspickamix on August 28th, 2014 03:37 am (UTC)
And then there's:

XANDER: No one is judging you. It's understandable. Spike is strong and mysterious and sort of compact but well-muscled.
BUFFY: (firmly) I am not having sex with Spike! But I'm starting to think that you might be.

Which as a Spander fan ... I'm surprised you didn't remember this one first. Although there are a bunch of things I forget about my favorite ships and characters when I try too hard.

*hugs and love*
Dragon's Phoenix: spander coffindragonyphoenix on August 28th, 2014 03:39 am (UTC)
I'm more familiar with the earlier seasons, but now that you mention it, yeah, I do recall that.
Restfield Placerbfvid on August 27th, 2014 02:37 pm (UTC)
And I just was wondering, why that event was so unpopular...
Dragon's Phoenix: Evil!Binkydragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 03:00 pm (UTC)
I have no idea what their original intention was with that rule, but it's hard, at least for me, not to read it that way.
Restfield Placerbfvid on August 27th, 2014 08:19 pm (UTC)
According to this it's just matter of his personal preferences.
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 08:27 pm (UTC)
Okay. I don't completely disagree with that. If the rules had linked to that, I wouldn't have had such an issue.

Aaaand maybe next time I'll think to just ask "what's up with that?" first.
Restfield Placerbfvid on August 28th, 2014 04:52 pm (UTC)
It's perfectly ok to have personal reading preferences. But to introduce it as a restriction in the ficwriting community seems a really bad idea to me. Especially in the current state of fandom.
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 28th, 2014 05:21 pm (UTC)
aadler's doing the work of getting this remix up and running. I am not impressed with this restriction. I am particularly not impressed with the lack of reasons given for this restriction on the CoF site. It's also reduced the number of people who are willing to play. No, I'll go further than that. It has offended people who would have been happy to play. So, yes, bad idea and badly implemented.

Aadler seems to think no slash is a big enough deal that he's willing to alienate people would have otherwise been happy to be part of this project. I don't understand that attitude.
velvetwhip: Fanfiction by purplefeenvelvetwhip on August 27th, 2014 03:39 pm (UTC)
Not sure either, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt, so yes, I signed up.

Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 07:38 pm (UTC)
If they had a good reason listed ...
velvetwhip: I Can Flyvelvetwhip on August 27th, 2014 07:40 pm (UTC)
I think they're trying to keep it gen focused, at least that's the impression I've gotten.

The main reason i signed up is that I know there's one of my stories aadler really wants to remix and I'm actually curious about what he'd do with it.


Edited at 2014-08-27 07:42 pm (UTC)
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 07:47 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure how allowing M/F but not M/M or F/F keeps it gen focused but that's at least better than the (non) explanation they give.

And I'm not trying to suggest anybody shouldn't sign up. I just realized it today and freaked a bit.

Edited at 2014-08-27 07:48 pm (UTC)
velvetwhip: Hand Kissvelvetwhip on August 27th, 2014 08:00 pm (UTC)
I'd actually forgotten the rule and, as I was looking over everyone's stories to get ahead start no matter who I was assigned, I was worrying about my ability write Ethan should I draw you...

Dragon's Phoenix: tiggerdragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 08:29 pm (UTC)
Don't we get to pick the story we remix? Granted, I'm a fan of Giles/Ethan but Ethan's not in every single one of my stories. ;-)
velvetwhip: Fanfiction by purplefeenvelvetwhip on August 27th, 2014 08:31 pm (UTC)
Yes we do, but your G/E stories are so intriguing, so yeah... I was thinking... But of course, that's moot now and it's not like I even know who I am getting anyway.

Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 27th, 2014 08:37 pm (UTC)
your G/E stories are so intriguing. That's so sweet. Thank you.

If you look up in my comments, rbfvid provides a link that explains where aadler is coming from on the whole no-slash rule.
baudownbaudown on August 27th, 2014 10:50 pm (UTC)
The mod is very anti-slash, as evidenced here:
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 28th, 2014 12:21 am (UTC)
No one is being forced to read it. I had rather wondered about this. Even if slash was written for the remix, aadler doesn't have to read it.

I don't understand the meaning of "systemic" homosexualization of characters. What system are you referring to? I completely didn't think of this, read right over that phrase but, yeah. It certainly isn't systemic.

I had noticed that all the relationships he'd posited were female but I'm more BtVS focused than AtS and much as I'd love Giles/Ethan to be canon ... And I really don't like Angel(us) so him with pretty much anybody tends to be why bother for me. While I have paired Angelus with others, it was more to explore issues of power and Angelus is perfect for that.
baudownbaudown on August 28th, 2014 12:04 pm (UTC)
When I first read that post, I was pretty new to fandom/fanfic/slash, and I didn't realize that anti-slash people were a thing. I was legitimately baffled at the time. But while I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt -- nah, not about this. Reading it again, I find it even more offensive.
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on August 28th, 2014 03:45 pm (UTC)
I seem to have missed the anti-slash aspect of fandom. Go me.
punch_kicker15punch_kicker15 on September 13th, 2014 02:36 am (UTC)
Coming to this very late, but just wanted to say that I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that had a WTF reaction to that requirement.

A while ago, I was looking at the Twisting The Hellmouth challenges that members had posted, and there were a bunch of them that said, "NO SLASH" pretty vociferously, which just kind of threw me for a loop. Like, I undertand if someone is looking for more of genfic, or only wants to read canon pairings, but there are ways to articulate that without saying "NO SLASH."

It made me sort of sad. But because I am evil, it also made me want to write a story that met their requirements, but also had the most horrific / canonically ridiculous hetero 'ships, like Glory/Oz, Joyce/Adam,
Tara/The Mayor, Jenny Calendar/Warren
Maggie Walsh/Xander, Kendra/Rack, Kennedy/Caleb.

Fortunately for everyone, I have enough problems finding enough time to write stuff that makes me happy, so those crackpairings-to-annoy-people stories will never be unleashed upon the world.
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on September 13th, 2014 03:06 am (UTC)
I didn't notice it at first. I think it was beer good foamy who pointed it out to me. But, yeah, makes no sense.

Hmmm, and I didn't even think of going the really awful 'ships route. Clever. Some of those are terribly squicky!
punch_kicker15punch_kicker15 on September 13th, 2014 03:40 am (UTC)
Yeah, I was definitely going for maximum squick-factor with those, just to illustrate what a bizarre requirement it was. I don't actually advocate anyone writing a story with these just to annoy someone. (Since I see that aadler seriously argued that slash fiction was written for shock value, or to annoy people, I guess I should clarify that this was a flippant response of mine and not actually my agenda when writing fic.)

On a more serious note, good luck with your remix. :)
Dragon's Phoenixdragonyphoenix on September 13th, 2014 03:47 am (UTC)
My slash is written because I really like Giles/Ethan as a couple.

Thanks. It's coming along but I don't think it's going to be expected. Not slashy or meant to annoy or anything, I just took the whole remix concept in a different direction. I am enjoying writing it though.
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )